[ Follow Ups ] [ Post Followup ] [ dartbase.com Board - Dart related discussions please! ] [ FAQ ]
Posted by kurt (4.156.198.28) on 12:54:32 11/04/04
In Reply to: Re: Front weight darts posted by Jeff Miller
Hello Jeff,
A good suggestion regarding the helix design,but Ja's question related to Laserdarts in particular. I know the marketing copy for LD Black Widows suggests that the slightly front-loaded design "promotes tighter groupings",so I threw in my opinion that he should spring for the moveable point version of the BlackWidow (Who comes up with these names?),which is Voks' ELC design.
As you likely know,Voks does this machine work for Laserdart. It would be cool if Laserdart also offered a helix option as well.
Regarding nylon or aluminum shafts for Voks-made ELC darts, I think it's a coin toss for either option,at least up to the 90% tungsten range. The ELC line is sold with aluminum,not nylon shafts,for whatever reason. Personally, I prefer aluminum. Yes,over time the ELC point's impact against the center of the shaft will wear a impact crater,which will weaken the holding power of the threads. If you ignore it,the point will jam and ulitmately break the shaft off or push it out of the barrel,leaving portions of the aluminum locked in the barrel's threads. Two minutes in a vise with a shot of WD-40 and a 2BA tap insert will clean up the mess...Tried using nylon Alamo shafts but found them to be quite fragile; one bounce-out and a bad landing would frequently shear the threaded portion off flush with the barrel,and the repair took far longer than a couple of minutes. I know Laserdart recommends these or other nylon shafts over aluminum for their Widow/Eagle moveable point variants,but I believe it's likely due to the more brittle nature of a dart barrel and threads machined out of 95-97% tungsten.
Glad you like your Helix darts. I think it's a very slick design,and the JW's are a steal at that price. Now,if they could just invent a helix variant which allowed some deflection-friendly spin or rotation -like the ELC design- without having to install spinning shafts,I'd buy it.
Shoot well,
Kurt
: : I think I am going to have to give my insight here when Kurt suggested the VoksEL-C dart. Yes they are a very good dart, however they should only be used with nylon shafts, due to the fact that the entire moving point mechanism slides up inside the barrel as it strikes the board. This in turn strikes the shaft on impact.
: What I might suggest is one of the Voks Helix darts. I'm using the Jim Watkins Helix series myself and they are available on the Voks Website for $35 plus shipping. I ordered mine on Tuesday and they arrived 2 days later. They are center weighted, and the moving point mechanism is second to none. I am using the model with the springs. That way the point retracts, then moves back to its "engaged" or ready state for your next throw. For the price they were a great alternative to the Voks EL-C due to the improved moving point spring loaded mechanism.
:
: Just my personal opinion.
:
: Jeff
:
: www.voksdarts.com
: then click on clearance.
: : Hi,Ja
: : My three cents on your two questions.
: : The first: No,one is not "better" than the other; "best" is what works best for you.
: : Doesn't matter with respect to cost,design,material (wood,brass,tungsten alloy)or flight/shaft combination.
: : Personally, I think front-loaded darts are somewhat easier for beginners to throw well as their design promotes a consistant grip placement. Consistant grip and consistant release combine to result in increased accuracy;same applies to any dart,it's just intitially more difficult for most to do with a center-weighted dart,as they are less "forgiving" with respect to grip placement,particularly with lighter weight darts.
: : With enough reps and practice,you find the proper grip spots for your style of throw without thought.
: : Take a look at what the world-class pros shoot.
: : I believe the vast majority shoot center-weighted darts. Among former world champions (PDC or BDO recognized -local hotshots excluded),I think John Lowe and the great Dennis Priestly won their titles shooting front loaded darts. Currently,and going back several years,I think you'd be hard pressed to find a pro ranked in the top 20 (by any federation) shooting a front-loaded dart.
: : Next...Laserdart's claim on "increased accuracy" (?)is a great shot shot from marketing and sales,as they would like you to part with big bucks (or slightly smaller big bucks) for their Black Widows or their less expensive KC's. I think their design claim for Black Widows states that the dart's (Black Widow -not KC's) slightly front-loaded design promotes "tighter groupings",which suggests an already high standard of accuracy. They think it's true. It may or may not be for you,too.
: : Finally,if you are considering Black Widows,spring loose another $20 for the Voks designed ELC moveable points. In my opinion Lasedart makes a very good,albeit expensive product in this dart. 95-97% tungsten is difficult to machine (quite brittle,scrap or discard rate is relatively high),so part of the price likely reflects costing out the rejects. I think the darts are well made,quite well matched (very very little difference in weight among each) and well finished. Addtionally, I understand that the company is very good about replacing a broken dart (see "brittle" comment again above)should this happen.
: : Okay,my three cents turned to four going on five...
: : Good luck,
: : Kurt
: :
: :
: : : There are some darts that are front-loaded and some are center weight. Is one better then the other. Laserdarts claim that front-weighted dart increased accuracy. Is that true?
: :
:
[ Follow Ups ] [ Post Followup ] [ dartbase.com Board - Dart related discussions please! ] [ FAQ ]